July 1998 Report
Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 8:33:52 AM
We had our first meeting last Wednesday, July 22nd, and I think we had an excellent start. Thanks to all who came out and made it such a success.
About 15 of us gathered in the top floor meeting room at the offices of Organic Online. We went around and introduced ourselves, and talked about how long we'd been using Frontier. There were a couple who had been using Frontier since version 1.0 or so, but most of the group had started a couple years ago with the Aretha release.
After the introductions, the time was split up into basic discussion about the Frontier, after which there was a break, and then a few short demonstrations.
The discussion was lively; and it seemed that a lot of time was taken discussing how difficult it was to learn Frontier. There was general agreement that the documentation needs improvement and organization. "Docs that don't assume anything, that help you get started" are needed. Script Meridian was mentioned and someone said that the information there was very helpful.
We also discussed bugs and updates. There are some apparent bugs that in the past have been brought to Userland's attention: in particular, an out of memory bug that occurs when rendering large websites--1000 pages or more. When reported to Userland, the reported response was, "it's not a bug--that's how it works." There is room to see both points of view--the user sees that Frontier stopped rendering in the middle of the night, and that there is an out of memory message. Userland knows that it's not really a bug, it's just how it works. But if Userland, as an again-commercial entity, wants to build a reputation for a usable product, then they will need to address issues like this, rather than arguing with their users.
I personally think that Userland has definitely improved on this; they are apparently much more responsive than they have been in the past.
Following this thread, we discussed bringing popular functionality into the root. Most of us are using Frontier in a work environment--so we'd like to be able to depend on things working. If we consult and recommend using Frontier, we want to be able to use a solution that works; and that will get service if it breaks. Someone brought up that it costs Userland to intergrate code from outside--testing time, coding styles, etc. are very important, and make it more difficult for Userland to do that kind of work.
On a Brighter Note
Someone asked "What do we actually use Frontier for?" With no exceptions, people are using it --one way or another-- to build or manage their websites. Everyone present indicated that they do use scripts in their sites--either modified macros or their own code. (I think scripting inside Frontier is when the power of the website framework becomes really apparent.)
Someone mentioned e-commerce. Michael Alderete, from Be, Inc., mentioned briefly that he used Frontier to run Be's e-commerce site for a while--they recently switched to something else--and when that wasn't working properly, was (or are?) switching back to Frontier.
We talked about the reasons we participate in BAFUG. One person wants marketing support--he's pitching his boss to use Frontier. Others wanted to network--be able to ask questions and answers face-to-face. We talked about creating our own resources online, or contributing to Script Meridian.
Demos
John Anderson came ready to do a demonstration of XML-RPC stuff that he had whipped up (a connection between Facespan and Frontier). Unfortunately, we had trouble installing it on my Powerbook, and... well, looking forward to that next time.
After the lengthy discussion, we took a break to get sodas. Then we travelled downstairs to a conference room with a Internet connection and large display for some demos (presented by your truly).
I demo'd dynAuthor, which is software that allows multiple users to edit a Frontier database which is located on a server. It's the software that is used to manage the "Script Meridian" site.
I also demoed newsCenter that allows you to manage news sites (similar to scripting news). It's an example of the kinds of mini-applications you can build on top of Frontier.
Food
Afterward about eight of us headed down the street to a diner, and had sandiwches (latkes and an omlette were also consumed).
I thought it was an excellent meeting, and a very solid start to a group that will grow. Hopefully even more people will be able to attend the next meeting. Thanks to all who came and made it such a success.
A special thanks to our hosts at Organic, Dave Humphreys and John Belew.
For those of you who attended, if you have anything you would like to add to this report (or contradict!) please drop me a mail and I will add it to this page.
Thanks!
Phil
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